Are You Going To See The Sex In The City Movie?
I'm not. I never understood the appeal of the show beyond it's celebration and catering to the lives of white women. I didn't watch the series and from what I understood, they never had a regular women of color appear in the cast, even though the show was shot in NYC. I guess they were using Woody Allen's version of NYC, because he never has people of color in his movies either. I know they had black men on the show and handled it in the same taboo way every other show has.
Now, there is all this buzz about "groups" of women going to see the movie. Women of color should stay at home. I'm not supporting "their" little flick. I can't name a white woman I know that saw Waiting To Exhale and I still run into white women who have NEVER seen The Color Purple. I'm tired of their lives being celebrated and ours being ignored. Girlfriends ran eight years and never got the celebrated fanfare of the white women on Sex in the City or on Friends.
32 comments:
Professor Tracey, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. A few of me and my other friends love sex and the city. It's just one those great shows that transcends color with its great writing and good story telling, like Seinfield and Cosby Show. All women can identify with these four ladies. It's a show about women not settling for what society says they should and is not stereotypical in the least.
On the other hand, as much I enjoyed Girlfriends its just not as a good show. The writing wasn't as strong and it relied on too many stereotypes.
And I remember when Oprah talked about Waiting to Exhale and a lot of white women did go see the movie and read the book, because they could identify with the characters. As much as I loved to watch Girlfriends, I still say the show could've better written. Even Living Single is a better show than Girlfriends. I just feel Mara Brock Akil caved into network pressure and created a show 'they' thought black women wanted to see. The same for the show The Game. I enjoy watching the show, but when it come down to quality and substance,I choose Desperate(sp?) Housewives over them.
Amen, Tracey! I was never into SATC and I really don't understand some black women loving it so much. For the EXACT same reasons you stated. I read in a recent EW, they added Jennifer Hudson as Carrie's assistant. Jen said most of her scenes were with Sarah Jessica Parker but that Kim Cattrall came to her trailer to say it was great they were finally adding some color to SATC. Why didn't she say that during the show? And for that matter, why didn't OZ and The Wire get even half the attention of The Sopranos and SATC? Oh never mind.....
miss issues -
How does a show transcend race? By ignoring it? I don't care how well-written a show is, if it excludes people of color from it's reality. How can any show take place in NYC(Seinfield) or Cheers (Boston) and complete exclude people of color?
So, as long as the show is well-written, it's okay that women of color are excluded from being considered sexy and attractive like the women in Sex in the City? Where does a woman of color identify?
Desperate Housewives? Wow! When they put a black woman on that show, did they do sexy and beautiful like the white women on the show? No, they did not! That spoke volumes about that show to me.
We can agree to disagree, but those shows just don't appeal to me. To me when women of color support those shows, the tv companies have no incentive to make shows like that about us.
I have never seen The Game. And I can't really knock Girlfriends, it's core audience never demanded better from the show. That's our fault.
Miss Info-you mentioned Oprah-those women only saw 'Waiting to Exhale' because Oprah screened it for them before the show. And again, Professor, you're reading my mind!I'd heard that Gabrielle Union was going to join 'Desperate Housewives' but then it turned out to be Alfre Woodard-no disrespect to Ms. Woodard.
It's funny how that transcending race seems to be OUR job.
Yes, Professor Tracey. We can't criticize a show because it didn't have a black person in the cast. I loved living single and it didn't have a white person in the cast. The underlying message is the friendship of these 4 women. I have three close sister girlfriends and not of one of them is white. Does that make me, racist, no. There are great movies, books, and TV shows(some with all black cast, some with all white cast) I loved. That what made Cosy Show and Different World great shows, both were well-written shows all could identify with on some level.
Now, Tyler Perry should never get caught up in trying to believe having a white person in his movie makes them better. He should just tell his story. Great stories,(movies, tv, and book transcend race). If a white person said they would never see a movie because it was all black, even though it's a great movie, I would say the same thing to them.
Professor Tracey, A lot of white men hate Sex and the City, also. My ex-boyfriend(who is white) and his friend loathe it. He would actually leave the room whenever I had it on. Same for Girlfriends
He thinks their all just a bunch of whiny, oversexed, middle aged women. LOL
I actually saw WW and men in the theater when I saw Waiting to Exhale. I don't know if was just b/c of Whitney, or because they could relate but I saw them there, I was shocked.
SATC was better written than girlfriends. Girlfriends came at a time when black folks didn't have many shows anyway. It would not have survived that long if it were around during the time of Living Single, Martin & A Different World.
I live in NYC and that whole melting pot thing is a myth. BW for the most part hang with other BW, and WW hang w/ other WW. At work the paths cross, but on the weekends no.
Ladies, you're missing my point. Black shows are RARELY made with the idea of crossing over to a white audience. White shows that KNOW that they have a cross over audience, make little or no effort to include ANY cast members of color period.
As I said we can agree to disagree, but I view SITC as a show about white women's experiences. I see nothing to identify with. I just can't watch so-called "hit shows" about "women" that deny I exist.
And what would we do without Auntie Oprah to educate all these white women about Waiting to Exhale AFTER black women had already turned it into a blockbuster. Things about black folk don't get on Oprah until it's already pretty much mainstream in our community before she feels the need to introduce to her predominantly white audience.
And as I said, I have NEVER personally met a white woman that has read or seen Waiting to Exhale.
@Miss Issues -
I hear your point! I still ain't going! LOL!!!!
@namia,
The melting pot may be a myth, but are you actually telling me you can walk the streets of NYC and NEVER see a person of color? It seems to magically happen on these kind of TV shows and in Woody Allen movies. LOL!!!!!
@ShazzaSharona
Not Gabbby Union would have been some kind of Desperate HousewiFe!!!!! What happened there!!!!! LOL!!!!!!
To white people in NYC even in real life people of color are invisible, they act like the Bronx (the heavily black & Latino borough)doesn't exist, and they are just "discovering" Brooklyn. Back in the 90's white people at openly stated "I do not go past 110street or 125 street" (which is Harlem, which is now being gentrified by the way). So called liberal, open minded NY'ers have no problem kicking low income tenants out of their homes to build million dollar condos.
So I guess I don't expect much from them.
I agree with you 100% Professor Tracy. I have watched some episodes of SATC but I never felt I had anything in common with the women at all. They are all really shallow, materialistic, promiscuous, trend-hopping superficial women. There is no substance to any of them. All they care about is the latest designer dress, pair of shoes, new restaurant, or party. I can't relate to them at all. I try to not watch shows that do not have a main cast member who is Black. As for Seinfeld, that show totally excluded Black people unless they had something bad happen to them. I have officially boycotted watching re-runs since the KKK-Kramer incident. Frankly, I think shows that have a Black character are looking to have Black people as viewers. Shows who ignore us will be ignored by me. I don't watch Desperate Housewives or Gossip Girl either for just these reasons.
I’m usually a lurker, but I had to chime in because I am a huge SITC fan. I know you have never watched the show and maybe you have an idea of it that’s some what skewed?
There are few main characters on the show. It’s the four girls and occasionally their love interest. Everyone else is a guest spot and the guest spots usually relate to something sexual. Quickly running through 6 seasons of SITC in my head, I can safely say, yes you will see black faces at a club, in the street or something. It’s not a woody allen movie. It’s not unrealistic in that regard. As for black female guest spots, there have been a few I can recall of the top of my head i.e. the owner of the fusion restaurant who doesn’t want Samantha dating her brother; the power lesbian episode; miranda’s neighbor who gives her her daughters old chair and a few others. But aside from blair underwood, there really hasn’t been a repeat black character on the show.
I agree w/ Naima that it is realistic in the sense that these ladies have a social circle that’s predominantly their race and as a NY’r, I can tell you that that’s how this city is. You HAVE to interact w/ people of other races, because the city is just that diverse – white people are only a slight majority (34%) and black’s and latino’s make up about 50% of the city combined. But it’s perfectly conceivable that in the midst of all this diversity, most people have self segregated social circles. Add to it the fact that these characters never leave manhattan and it’s quite realistic.
I agree with you however about the fact that shows like SITC are supposed to have universal appeal, when they really don’t. It’s a great show and there are lots of things I enjoy and related to, but not every woman is going to find this show relatable. White people are not colorless and they don’t transcend race better than anyone else. Just because something is relatable it doesn’t mean that it still is not “white”. We’ve let white become “neutral”, when it’s not. It’s a race like any other. This doesn’t take away from the quality of the show, because it is a really well written show, but i do take offense at the fact that only “white” works of art get considered universal.
I would say however, that saddest thing about Sex and the City is that this show would not have worked w/ any other race of actresses beside white women. The sexual promiscuity, taboo sex acts and raunchiness of this show only work with a group of women who don’t have to combat those images on a regular basis. White actresses have the freedom to take these types of risqué roles because they have a counter balance. We don’t. I can’t imagine a Regina King playing Samantha and not having black women up in arms demanding that the show be taken of the air. I think it’s much easier for me to swallow these stories coming from white women. I think watching a black woman talking about her oral sex technique on HBO every week might just rub me a different way.
Hi Prof. Tracy! I do agree with your analysis of SATC. I wish that the relationships with black men (I think there were 3) had been more substantive.
Let's see... there was Samantha's one-episode hook up, which ended because the man was to weak to stand up to his sister-- who OBVIOUSLY hated that her brother was dating a white woman! (This makes sense, because black women were responsible for penning the first miscegenation statutes). Hmmm... emasculated black man? check. Ball-breaking, love-hating, evil black woman? check, check, check!
Then there was Miranda's ill-fated romance with her neighbor. I was initially excited for this-- there seemed to be real potential for the two of them to work out! But alas, he was simply an exotic amuse-bouche for her to enjoy before returning to Steve. A less generous interpretation is that no matter how intelligent, wealthy, and handsome a black man is, he is simply no competition for a white man...even a scruffy bartender. (Indeed, in real life, white women are generally reluctant to date and marry handsome, well-to-do black men.)
Even Carrie had a brief flirtation with a black (Latin American?) navy officer at a party. But by the end of the episode, he revealed himself to be extremely narrow-minded towards New York City. (This, too, is logical: blacks and Hispanics are largely responsible for perpetuating negative stereotypes about New York, since they are the ones producing and writing sensationalist dramas like NYPD Blue and Law and Order. Additionally, blacks and Hispanics from outside New York are understandably wary of the high percentages of blacks and Hispanics who dwell in the Big Apple.)
Black men received little play on SATC, but black women fared worse. Other than the hateful sister, there was the friendly black female cab driver (read: mammy) who is able to coax Carrie into celebrating her book deal. As I recall, the two women go out for drinks. But strangely, after this instant bonding session, the mammy/cabbie is never heard from again! Hopefully Carrie paid the tab.
And lastly, there is the group of young black women enjoying a bridal shower at a bar Carrie & co. stumble into one night. Upon learning that Charlotte is soon to be married as well, the cute black bride FORCES CHARLOTTE TO TAKE HER PARTY CROWN. Charlotte laughingly refuses at first, but eventually accepts. Shit, she deserves it! The black bride knows that any random white woman's marriage is of far more significance than her own: the handing over of the "crown" is the symbolic recognition of the queenly status of all white women. (This gesture can also be read as an apology for the suffering white women endured during slavery-- struggling to keep their families together while black women enticed white men into illicit sexual relations. Despite this emotional trauma, white women today are able to believe in love and behave cordially towards black women! Which, you know, really speaks to thier character.)
I do not recall seeing the members of the black bridal party at Charlotte's wedding, but maybe they were in the back pews.
In all seriousness, SATC was an extremely well-written and funny show. I've obviously seen most of the episodes! But I was never fully able to enjoy the series due to the subordinate roles it accorded black men and women. Sadly, despite all this, I probably would have STILL seen the movie-- had it not been clear from the previews that it plays into the nuclear family pipe dream that continues to (d)elude so many American women of all races. Does Carrie really need to marry the manipulative (but yes, sexy) Big in order to be rich and happy? Why must Charlotte be pregnant-- isn't the little girl she adopted from China good enough? Or was she just a stand-in until the couple could have their "own" child?
If, after reading the reviews, I discover that Carrie leaves Big at the alter and that Pregnant Charlotte was merely a dream sequence, I might pony up the cash to see the Sex and the City movie. Until then, thanks but no thanks.
(Last but not least-- Girlfriends was pure trash. Poorly written, not funny, boring... I knew it was crap when, in the first full episode I watched, the vegan hippie tells her boyfriend that he was lucky she wasn't "fully" black, because a "real sista" would have thrown him out long ago. Anyone else remember that line? Ugh. Hey UPN: making a black woman a lawyer or other professional does not give you carte blanche to incorporate every other negative stereotype into your storyline. Boooo!!)
Tell it, Prof. Tracey.
I'm tired of mainstream media acting as though the experiences/dreams of white women represent all women, especially black women. Their experiences don't match ours, yet we can be held to a yardstick which was meant to measure them!
I truly get pissed off when they speak of the presumptions that undergird their lives and act as though somehow that should resonate with us, as though we are all in the same boat!
you may cringe but i am a white woman who saw waiting to exhale bought the movie and soundtrack bothered all her neighbors singing along- learned to love Mary J. Blige from it and hate hate hate SITC. also always think SJP seems nice in interviews but really can't stand to see her on screen and i have the same reaction to diana ross's daughter. living single was a good show. i think that would have made a good movie.
Iman,
For me you just made this worse. So, only white women are free to be openly sexy and have multiple sexual relationships? To live professional lives with the ups and downs? To enjoy live and all its pleasures? It troubles me that "stereotypes" would change this "well-written" show if the cast was women of color.
Then, I'm back to my original question, what exactly are women of color enjoying about a show that could not include them? If women of color love this show so much, wouldn't seeing women of color enjoying the same freedoms be liberating and exciting, damn the stereotypes?
I really don't get women of color sitting around watching white women's "full" lives, while lamenting that women of color couldn't do the same thing. It doesn't matter how well-written or funny the show is, it sounds like a double standard to me. A double standard we should be willing to breakdown instead of accepting that white women have all the fun and we just watch and applaud.
As an actress, I have a different problem with this movie. The problem I have is that Jennifer Hudson, an Academy Award-winning actress, has to play AN ASSISTANT to Sarah Jessica Parker, someone I consider to be far less talented! I don't like what this says about the future of my career. That, even after I work my butt off to get an Oscar, I'll still be playing the background to some white woman's foreground!
Hello there!
I don't own a television so I have NEVER ever seen an episode of Sex In The City and the movie doesn't seem to be appealing...promiscuous white women celebrating white privilege...is that the plot? Why would that have cross over appeal? Am I missing something important?
Girlfriends was a black show with white writers (I've been told by those who watched) and that is why cliches and stereotypes were rampant.
As for Desperate Housewives, Halle Barry said in an interview that she was interested in being on the show...they added a black actress but they didn't want an actress who would have more shine than the white actresses....hence...they chose a not-so-so-ravishing black actress...although Alfre CAN out-act everyone on that show....I will give it to her on that!!
{chuckles}
Lisa
I love the Sex and the City series!! My sister, best friend (who is Indian), and I found so much in common with the characters. And it's just hilarious. I know they didn't have Black women or Asian, Latina, or any women of color featured. But, it was just fun and there were so many lines and stories where I just said YES!!! I've been through that!!
Anyway, my friends and I are going Saturday night. Looking forward to it!!
i think you missed my point. i have no problem with black women living full lives - i live a very full life of my own. I also have no problem with black actors taking controversial roles, making controversial music or anything above. People have the right to be individuals and artists.
However I'd be lying if i didn't say that i watch shows much more critically when a black cast is involved, because our images are often 1. never created by us, 2. create with the sole purpose of fulfilling stereotypes.
So my point is that a black version of SITC would be a much different viewing experience for me, because as a black women I'm always analyzing how I'm depicted. Halle Berry in Monster's Ball is perfect example. I had no problem with that sex scene or her oscar win. That's her right as an actress. But black people attack her for that role and write her win off. That was my point. It's hard for black art that is controversial or risque to exist in a society where we are on the defensive (rightfully so), because our character is always being assassinated. So we say we want a black SITC, but are we really prepared to have a show were black woman are having sex nonstop?
I'm not knee jerk when it comes to stereotypes. Quality is quality. That goes for t.v shows, movies, hip hop and so on. So if a black version of SITC was created with the same caliber of production and writing, i'd be all up on it. The WIRE is a perfect example of this. Excellent show (that some people feel exploits black stereotypes) but I feel is so clever and well written that it proves to be more than just sterotypical "hood" drama. Given the level of sexual exploitation of black women in the media, I have to admit that the bar would have to be raised pretty high for a black version of SITC to prove to be more than just same ol'. I also feel the same way about SITC knock offs (lipstick jungle, cashmere mafia etc.). Both those shows threw in a few non-white leads, but they just weren't quality shows. At the end of the day the show has to be good.
Enjoying SITC is no different than me enjoying a Jane Austin novel, or ET when I was a kid. I don't have to have an all black cast of characters for me to enjoy something. I am however aware that this show, like anything else with an all white cast doesn't have universal appeal and the only reason it's considered to have universal appeal is because white people are seen a "race neutral" and as I said before, I don't suscribe to that. Until black shows are considered race neutral, I will call white shows exactly what they are - white shows. That I have no confusion about. I think you'd be hard pressed to find black person who wasn't fan of a show or movie that had an all white cast. SITC is no different.
btw. i liked girlfriends. SITC was much more clever, but i don't think girlfriends gets enough credit because it's constantly compared to SITC, which is like apples and oranges.
:-)
Iman -
Well there you go, I hated E.T. I thought it was a crappy movie and with no black kids. I never understood the excitement about that movie. I loved going to the movies at a kid, particularly the drive-in and that night makred the one time that I could have stayed at home! I'll never forget it - a double feature of E.T. and Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid. Both movies sucked big wind.
As I have said repeatedly to numerous folks in this thread, we are free to agree to disagree on this suject. I will never celebrate white women being free to be portrayed as they wish, but whenever its black women doing the same thing, it's a stereotype.
I never compared Girlfriends to SITC. They were different shows. And whether you liked the show or not, it ran eight years and did not receive the same hype as SITC. Somebody liked Girlfriends and even Girlfriends started out as a show with white women in the cast. It was never an "all black" show to begin with, people keep forgeting that. Just like A Different World.
So, support SITC, I won't be doing it. We will even each other out.
The reason I won't be going to see (and never watched) S&TC is that frankly, I'm tired of all of these movies/shows with oversexed, one-night-stand-having characters (i.e. "Knocked Up,", "What Happens in Vegas", etc.).
Going back to the original point of your post, this past holiday weekend I watched Lifetime and LMN most of the time. They had movies where the main characters were lawyers, businesswomen, med students, etc. and they were all WHITE! The movies were captivating, but I got increasingly infuriated b/c I thought, "Black women could easily play these roles as well!"
So, I went to lifetimetv.com, not to play the silly computer games they have on there, but to send a complaint about the lack of diversity in their original movies and sitcoms. I'm still waiting on a response...
good stories, good writing and good production is my criteria to watch good shows. The human story should transcend race. These 4 white chicks have no black people in "their New York city world" it not only plausible, but unfortunately likely. Just like the show " Designing Women" , Now who did not like the Sugarbakers? Why are we always asked to transcend? Because what few channels we do own......is still filled with buffoonery, church programming and infomercials. Until there are more shows like Lincoln Heights aired on TV... i have to view the best work available............ will go see the Movie NO ( it will make plenty of money without my $6.50) ........but I will see it on Netflix
Well Professor Tracey, we will have to agree to disagree.
The funny thing is none of my black girlfriends identified with any of the characters of Girlfriends. Poor Joan was reduce to a stereotypical bw who can't keep a man.
I agree with Iman, blacks aren't ready to see those images. Look at all the the hype Tyler Perry gets for showing 'positive' black characters. Any true artists knows to grow you must show realistic characters in all races, be they good or bad. Flaws are what make us human. That's why so many women love SATC. That's why I love Max from Living Single, girl went out and got hers, rather it in her career or personal life.
I never understood the backlash Halle Berry receive from Monster Ball. Neither with Denzel in Training Day. It takes a real artist to step outside their comfort zone and show the ugly side of humanity.
Sorry, Page -
But Designing Women had a regular black cast member. They had the good sense to know that it would be stretching reality to not have one regular black person on a show set in Georgia!
What NYC do you folks see? I lived in NY and visit there often, what all-white sections of Manhattan do you know? I'm sorry but that is excuse for it to be okay for SITC to remain all white.
If these characters are so hip and cutting edge, they are no living "all white" lives except in the minds of the writers that wrote them!
I think the real core issue of this is the exclusion of Black women in the media. Of course there's going to be a show celebrating white women when it serves a purpose to those that want to. Further, not only are these white women, but they're white women from a particular background. If I am not mistaken a core group of the talent and writers are all European-based jews. So it's a celebration of themselves, correct? I have had MAJOR problems with their lack of inclusion but they were allowed to get away with it because no one effectively demanded inclusion. The show in many aspects was a white gay man's dream show - I watched it enough times at a theme night cocktail hours in numerous packed gay bars! Despite my criticism I found it enjoyable if unrealistic. I could not see them being able to function at maintaining a career with the amount of late night partying they engaged in or being able to save any money with what they spent on wardrobe and entertainment. It was in many ways pure fantasy and that's what tv often is. There was no show that proceeded it except Golden Girls and since they were elders living in Miami wouldn't have the appeal. I don't think there'll be a show like it again - even though there were 2 knock-off shows that not-so-coincidentally tried to quell the lack of diversity argument by having 2 Asian female leads. Which SATC character would I have preferred to have been cast with a Black actress? I don't know. Charlotte or Miranda I suppose - definitely NOT Samantha. Actually Megan Goode just popped in my head as a much younger Carrie redux with Dennis Haysbert as Mr. Big. Now that would have been interesting - but a completely different show...and let's face it, it would have been more marginalized as well. I wonder if white women may have been more accepting of the show in a different configuration than Black women. But despite all the plot leaks I will still go see it because I need to escape for a few hours into someone's fantasy world for a few hours.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!
I have never watched one episode of Sex In the City for free. I definitely will not pay to see the movie.
I watched one episode of SITC and thought it was pretty funny but never watch it on a regular basis. I too never understood the appeal that it had for sisters and other women of color. When are we gonna stop supporting tv shows and movies that ignore us?
I'm a fan of the show and am looking forward to the movie. I also watch The Game and bought Living Single on TV. The shows don't appeal to me in the same way but I do find them entertaining despite their flaws.
This one's for you Prof....lol
"But Sex and the City's nod to the nonwhite is scary. Jennifer Hudson plays Carrie's personal assistant, and Oh my God, it's Hattie McDaniel for the new millennium: Instead of cleaning Carrie's house, she cleans up her computer files (although she does help declutter the apartment, too). She admires her mistress in those beautiful outfits. And check out that smile when you give her a Louis Vuitton handbag! Please, Sex and the City, do not pretend you exist in the real multiracial world. White will always be your new black.
---I will be watching Eve's Bayou again instead of subjecting myself to that."
http://jezebel.com/5011611/why-cast-a-black-actress-in-your-movie-when-you-can-get-mena-suvari-in-cornrows
I love it! Miss Pinky! LOL! You betta wtach out this sista-friend SITC fans are gonna get you! LOL!
I just ran into this article about why SATC appeals to women who are economically, ethnically, and socially different from the SATC cast:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/30/nyregion/30reax.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Post a Comment