Thursday, September 17, 2009

Hofstra Rape Victim Rants Story - Now We Celebrate Young Men Of Color Engaging In Group Sex Instead - What A Victory!

If the victim lied, she should be prosecuted, she just made it harder for the next woman. No one wants to see anyone go down for a crime they didn't commit, but I don't see much to smile about in this situation. Rape or no rape, this is still stupid, idiotic, and reckless behavior.

Why do we continue to celebrate behaviors in our communities that lead folks down the garden path to the legal system? If these guys hadn't been so willing to be number three or four in line to get some cheap sex, they would not have been in the position to get arrested for rape in the first damn place. It's still a question of character.

And for those of you jumping up down calling the victim a liar, lots of rape victims recant their stories. They blame themselves and take the fall. I wouldn't be surprised if she changes her story once again at some later date.

I remain completely unsympathetic to young men of color that engage in behaviors that end getting them on the wrong side of the law. If you treat a young lady like a lady, even when she is not acting like one herself, you will never find yourself on the ass end of a rape charge.


Shady_Grady September 17, 2009 at 11:25 AM  

PT, I don't see how you can say that if the men hadn't shown poor character they wouldn't have gotten in trouble. We don't know what happened other than supposedly the video did not back up the woman's story and that the woman has now said that whatever happened sexually was consensual.

That's all we know.

We don't know if it was sex with one guy or more. For all we know at this point one (or more)of those guys may have been across town or elsewhere in the dorm doing something completely different and for whatever reason he was named as a suspect. We just don't know yet.

It is possible to do everything right and still "find yourself on the ass end of a rape charge".

I don't understand why any man would want to have sex with a woman while she's engaged with someone else but that's just me. As long as the parties consent, it's not my business.

cinque September 17, 2009 at 12:27 PM  

How is this still the four young mens fault? From your first post it seems you had the men "victim shopping" and now you still blame them even though the young lady recanted her story. "Rape or no rape, this is still stupid, idiotic, and reckless behavior". Yes, it is. All of their behavior(theirs and hers). I can't let her off the hook as easily as you can. She has as much culpability as they do if not more so.

Black Butterfly September 17, 2009 at 1:11 PM  

Ugh...I feel the same way. On different sites they keep saying how "nasty" the girl was for this act but no one is speaking on how "nasty" it was that those boys participated! It is completely repulsive and reflective of our current society that these behaviors are becoming more and more acceptable. SMH

Danny September 18, 2009 at 2:03 AM  

Ugh...I feel the same way. On different sites they keep saying how "nasty" the girl was for this act but no one is speaking on how "nasty" it was that those boys participated! It is completely repulsive and reflective of our current society that these behaviors are becoming more and more acceptable.

Even though before any solid evidence was brought those boys were arrested and had their mugshots plastered all over the country? If in the event there is enough to charge her I highly doubt it will get the same media attention as the initial arrest of those four boys nor will her mugshot get plastered all over the place. The court of public opinion was ready to find them guilty from get go.

As far as I'm concerned as long as its consensual on all sides leave them alone.

First Lady 4.11 September 18, 2009 at 2:03 AM  

I agree with Shady_Gray, what exactly are you insinuating?

Anonymous,  September 18, 2009 at 2:30 AM  

Yeah...I agee with the last part! Yep if it were my son (If I had kids) I'd expect him to not want to partake in this mess!



oregonsistah September 18, 2009 at 2:45 AM  

prof tracey, i had the same type of reaction "so brothers and friends were okay having sex with the same women right behind each other" What is the mindset to agree to something like that, nasty...Basically, they did set up themselves for this situation...The girl may have agreed upfront and then probably felt violated...glad they were let off "this time", and hoped they learned a lesson from this...I would kick my son's ass for participating in such behavior that could put him at risk to go to jail for rape and ruin his life...and aren't these young men students at Hofstra, if so, they should have been somewhere studying...

factcheck September 18, 2009 at 6:49 AM  

as you very correctly note, when women recant stories of rape and domestic violence, more often than not the recantation is the "lie", not the original charge. the rape and DV actually happened, but the consequences to her life of reporting it were too high and she backs down. whether that happened here or not is not known.

but we do know this: its whether or not a woman *feels* she was raped that will be the jumping off point for a rape investigation. not whether the man/men *feel* like rapists. there is every reason in the world to believe that being on the "ass-end" of group sex with a bunch of young men that dont care about your pleasure, or whether or not they are hurting you, and dont care whether or not you are enjoying yourself is going to feel like a victimization. a prudent person simply would not engage in such behaviors that are likely to make women feel as if they were victimized in any way. i think these guys put themselves in this situation, and i agree that they are not innocent little angels, by any stretch.

Anonymous,  September 18, 2009 at 7:57 AM  


There is nothing at all about this situation I find celebratory. I'm sickened and embarrassed by ALL sides of this debacle. Please believe it when I say that as a man, I would never encourage such asinine behavior.



Professor Tracey September 18, 2009 at 9:49 AM  

@Cinque -

Learn how to read the post fully before you comment.

@First Lady -

I'm not insinuating anything, I clearly stated how I felt.

@First Lady and Shady Grady -

If you engage in RISKY sexual behaviors - group sex, unprotected sex, sex with drunken individuals, public sex, you are most definitely putting yourself at risk for sexually transmitted diseases, unplanned parenthood, and YES, criminal charges!

I am damn sick and tired of black people acting like sex had no consequences or putting it all on the women. You engage in stupid behaviors, you raise the risk that you end up in negative situations. Stop giving folks a pass. We love laughing and picking at white folks when they do this stuff, but when it's us, there are always excuses.

And Shady, they weren't "across town" they were signed in to the dorm at the party. On one of the five were students at Hofstra in the first place. And I really can't stand the "we don't now what happened" defense.

Black folks have engaged in this same tired defense with Genarlo Wilson, Mike Tyson, R. Kelly and numerous other sexual violence related - "he said, she said" cases. The only thing that is consistent with our community is that the woman is ALWAY suspect in these cases.

And remember when you argue "we don't know what happened" you still live the gang rape right there open on table for discussion - regardless of her recanting or not.

Rape is one of the greatest unreported crimes, I prefer that the police err on the side of the "alleged" victims when they do come forward.

Professor Tracey September 18, 2009 at 9:51 AM  

@Oregan Sistah -

......"somewhere studying" THANK YOU!!!!

Shady_Grady September 18, 2009 at 12:55 PM  

PT, my only point is that this woman LIED. Without a video showing contradictory evidence ( no rope, not tied up, etc) presumably she would have allowed the process to take its course and five innocent men would probably have been convicted and sent to prison for decades. During that time they would have been brutalized and become brutalizers themselves. Not a just outcome.

I don't know the color of the woman. From my Midwest viewpoint all of the men appear Black but my understanding from East Coast friends is that there is a distinction to be made between "Black" or "Puerto Rican" or "Dominican" or what have you. Whatever. The color is not important to me.

The type of sex the woman was having with one or more of the men is irrelevant to the fact that she lied. There have been men wrongfully convicted of rape, that weren't involved in group sex at all, just one-on-one. In some cases there was unproven sexual contact but there was still a conviction. So lying is really important here.

More information has come out since my original response but at least one of the young men stated that he did not have sex with her. Again, until we get more information all we know is that whatever happened wasn't rape-thanks to a video, evidently.

I'm hardly celebrating the actions of the men involved. As stated I personally find the idea of multiple males engaged with the same woman or taking turns sick, but there are women and men who enjoy it. There are lots of things that aren't for me but if the people involved CONSENT I'm not going to tell them what to do. If she consents, it's not rape. How she feels afterwards has nothing to do with it.

I don't understand the link to other cases. For me at least it's not about always blaming the woman or the man. Sometimes men rape; sometimes women lie. In these cases I certainly don't believe that every woman is a liar but I also don't believe every man is a rapist. The important thing is to get at the truth in each particular case and punish the guilty or protect the innocent. In this case, the men are the innocent party.

wisdomteachesme September 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM  

the lack of good character is very obvious concerning the boys and the young woman. it is also obvious that there is something wrong with her. to even attempt to agree to do this or to think she was safe enough with them and would not be hurt.
the lack of raising these boys to think that everything that is free is for them is sad. There is a Lot to be said about how they see young women.
Yes they got arrested and had their faces plastered over every news venue...And that is what happens to every man that is accused of rape.

i believe something happened against her will and that someone got to her and that is why she recanted.
She displays the symptoms of someone who has been abused.
And they all need to get tested for STD's!
If teh young men did this and if they are lying, it will be uncovered--you can't do wrong but for so long before the truth shines on you and you get caught in your messiness.
I hope that she gets the help that she needs. and the young men also.
Cause they truly all need some Guidance from some people with Good Character.

Anonymous,  September 24, 2009 at 2:19 PM  

I feel you Prof,

There are no winners here... i felt bad that they brothers went out like that on a sista.. and i felt bad that the sista wanted to get down like that.

as you said it makes it harder for the next woman - thats the saddest part. but hell folks been runnin trains for hundreds of years no matter the ethnic background. what are you gonna do? folks got their freaky ways of wanting to get off.

jacked up i know

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