Sunday, January 13, 2008

You Got It Wrong Gloria! - It's Black Women Who Are NEVER Front-Runners!

I am still simmering with anger over Ms. Gloria Steinem throwing black women under the bus....again! Whenever anyone wonders why black women reject feminism, I always wonder does that individual have any grasp of women's history. Things have always been cool in white feminist world, when black women never expect to have their issues or concerns come first.

We put in the same work side by side, but when the chips are down on an issue regarding gender or race, white women always pick gender, completely and conveniently forgetting that for women of color, the issue is always much more complex. Did Ms. Steinem even bother to consult or discuss her views about the 2008 presidential election with any of her female feminist colleagues of color or does she have any feminist friends of color left after using them up in the 1960s and 1970s?

SISTER! Your foot's smaller, but it's still on my neck! - Pat Parker

And to my sistas of color out there that are fighting everyday to make the world better for women and girls of color, you are a feminist whether you like it or not! You don't have to take my word for it, Dr. Renita Weems said it better than I ever could and so did Nichelle at Anovelista.com.

25 comments:

Nichelle January 14, 2008 at 2:10 AM  

Hey, thanks for the shout out Prof. Tracey. I think it is vital- so VITAL - that our electronic footprint has some impact and plays a part in getting the word out on this mess.

BTW, did you know that Gloria Steinem endorsed George McGovern over Shirley Chisholm in the 1972 race?

Uh huh...

wisdomteachesme January 14, 2008 at 8:55 AM  

go'headgurl!!!!!

i know i am a feminist or you can call me a womanist... either way, if my fighting for-working for changes in all that concerns Women of Color-to better our lives puts me in one or more catagories--so be it!

i've already been put into plenty of them just by being. what others call me does not change Who God made me to be!

it does not stop my passions for what i believe in. i don't care what i am called--it is what it is-and we have to do what we have to do.

i have sat in on many a discussion about white and black women and their views concerning what should be done and how.

just this past fall i was sitting with a small group of women, one being the head of ms. mag./the fem. majority foundation, (on an hbuc's campus) listening to her talk about what needs to be changed for all women and how to get more black young college women involved into the action. and some of her views had to be altered to include our issues and concerns on a greater level.

so many black women are afraid of labels and their knowledge about feminism is clouded by gossip and ignorance.

you know, you can't make a person beleive they are a slave if they do not want to be free!

DJ Black Adam January 14, 2008 at 11:39 AM  

“We put in the same work side by side, but when the chips are down on an issue regarding gender or race, white women always pick gender, completely and conveniently forgetting that for women of color, the issue is always much more complex”.

The only thing I disagree with in that statement is that I believe Black women have put in MORE work. In reality, White women not only benefit from the advances made from the feminist movement, they also benefit from the advances made from the civil rights movement, and we know Black women were active forces in BOTH movements.

The fact is, that Black women and men need to work together, with mutual respect and on equal terms. The Black man is a fool to be a chauvinist and specifically anti-Black woman, and the Black woman a fool to be anti-Black Man.

Our destinies are entwined, simple as that, and I am tired of folks who want to put their head in the sand and posit otherwise, if Black women lose, WE ALL LOSE, if Black men lose, WE ALL LOSE.

JJ January 14, 2008 at 11:50 AM  

That's why I say I'm a reluctant feminist.

Damn White women mess the word up for me every time.

Miss Pinky January 14, 2008 at 12:06 PM  

"Our destinies are entwined, simple as that, and I am tired of folks who want to put their head in the sand and posit otherwise, if Black women lose, WE ALL LOSE, if Black men lose, WE ALL LOSE."

___________________________________

I have to respectfully disagree (for myself). My agenda for 2008 is pro-black woman. Period.

pinky

SheCodes January 14, 2008 at 12:33 PM  

I am not a feminist, but have absolutely no no fear of being labeled as one by others.

While I have many beliefs that are in alignment with feminism, I have certain ideas that most feminists would think are 'dealbreakers'.

I do have misgivings with several of the spokespersons of feminism, but as I always say, 'I've never been raped by a feminist, oppressed by a lesbian, or ridiculed by either'.

I don't need a title to do what I do, or to be what I am -- and that is a Dangerous Black Woman.

tasha212 January 14, 2008 at 2:23 PM  

D.J. Black Adam,

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

wisdomteachesme January 14, 2008 at 2:38 PM  

I do have misgivings with several of the spokespersons of feminism, but as I always say, 'I've never been raped by a feminist, oppressed by a lesbian, or ridiculed by either'.

-----------------
LOL!! shecodes, that is funny to me!
good one....hahaha

if men want to join in and help OUR causes-great-if they are coming to interupt in order to slide in their issues then it will not work. and they need to stay in their own groups.

if black women are not happy with the org.'s that exist to promote womens causes, then we should create our own.

i feel it is true, that we All are connected-but if others want to promote their causes and issues through what black women are doing--that will not work.

just because black women are joining together-does not mean we do not care what happens to black men.
that is a lie and manipulation/passive aggresive thinking in order to keep 'us' in our places.
again, it will not work on me.

JJ January 14, 2008 at 3:17 PM  

Sorry Dj Black Adam.

Black women need their own space.

We tried working with ya'll...it was called the Civil Rights Movement.

Just as Black folk need their own space from White folk.

Black women need their space form White women.

Miss Pinky January 14, 2008 at 3:36 PM  

jj you expressed it perfectly..thank you.

pinky

DJ Black Adam January 14, 2008 at 5:15 PM  

“I have to respectfully disagree (for myself). My agenda for 2008 is pro-black woman. Period.”

You are not disagreeing with me, you a disagreeing with an actuality I presented. No one is saying that women and men have unique social political actualities to contend with, what I am saying is that we need to be concerned about each other and work together for the betterment of the WHOLE Black Community, man, woman and child.

To do otherwise is tantamount to self inflicted genocide.

SheCodes January 14, 2008 at 5:17 PM  

I welcome any man who is concerned about black women into public discourse about our problems.

It's important to get the male perspective because like it or not -- we do need each other.

However, anybody who tries to switch the subject away from black women on my blog is going to be scurrying away with seriously hemorraging wounds.

The only time that I think that we need to expel men from the convo is when we finally get the chance to talk woman-to-woman, eye-to-eye with the gender turncoats. I can't wait for that day to arrive.

DJ Black Adam January 14, 2008 at 5:23 PM  

@JJ & Pinky:

“Black women need their own space.”

Everyone needs their “own” space, be it Black Women, Black Children, Black Men, Black gays, Black lesbians, Black Midgets, what ever, however, BLACK PEOPLE are in it together, to ignore the plight of the collective in difference to the subgroup is to set the collective up for failure.

I doubt if when the Nazis came for the Jews, they differentiated between women, men and children in regards to extermination.

”We tried working with ya'll...it was called the Civil Rights Movement.”

I was born in 1970, so I don’t think anyone was working with “Me”. The Civil Rights movement was for THEN, that antiquated paradigm is done, the BLACK FAMILY needs a more introspective model going forward; there are new COLLECTIVE problems that require COLLECTIVE solutions. It is disingenuous and self destructive to proceed otherwise.

Professor Tracey January 14, 2008 at 7:05 PM  

Nichelle -

Thanks for stopping by. And yes I knew, that's why I said throwing us under the bus...again! LOL!

DJ Black Adam -

I stand corrected on the more work part, but I do agree that black folk need to work together, but I think the black women movement train has long left the station! The question is could black men stand black women leading the the fire this time and stnad behind us like we have historically did for them? If you believe the stats we have the money and the education on our side.

To All The Ladies -

I feel your words, but help me out with what you are willing to do! A few of us have somethings brewing and we need folks in the field to help do the work? What would you like to get changed?

Miss Pinky January 14, 2008 at 7:09 PM  

I'm not going to bring my "stuff" (lol) to PT's blog.

I will say that I'm down for black women and children and leave it at that.


pinky

wisdomteachesme January 14, 2008 at 7:56 PM  

dj black adam, what do you think needs to be done as a group where black women and men are working together?

what kind of introspective black family model are you speaking of?

i really want to know what you think we need to do to create this betterment that you spoke of?

JJ January 14, 2008 at 9:25 PM  

Subjugated people needed their own spaces.

DJ Black Adam -

You're being disingenuous when you compare the needs to Black women to children and midgets.

"Space" isn't about going somewhere for a quick timeout but about working ot issues that are important to a group that the dominant (in this case Black males) cannot or will not deal with.

There is a lot of sexism in the Black community need to be able to work that out sans the inflence of men

We can work together...sure. But there are things we need to work on ourselves without the benefit of male involvement or opinion.

DJ Black Adam January 14, 2008 at 9:45 PM  

@Shecodes:

“I welcome any man who is concerned about black women into public discourse about our problems.”

Shecodes, truly, what real Black man would NOT be concerned about Black women’s issues? What benefit is it to me or any Black man, to see Black women in bad situations?

I consider myself PRO Black Woman, PRO Black Child and Pro Black Man, I see no contradiction or competition between these positions, these positions compliment each other, if a person REALLY is for the progress of all of these categories there is no contradiction.

“However, anybody who tries to switch the subject away from black women on my blog is going to be scurrying away with seriously hemorraging wounds.”

I would not change the subject at all, nor is it my intention (but just in case Shecodes, I’ll make sure I come to your blog with my SHAZAM given power of Atum to avoid injuries lol), Seriously, what I am saying is very relevant to the Black COLLECTIVE group. Black men cannot ignore the problems of Black women and expect for the Black collective to proceed in any truly positive or prosperous direction, and vice versa. Now, I don’t think the sisters have been ignoring the brothers, in fact, I would posit that the sisters have help to enable some of this outrages behavior that many Black men perpetrate (heck, look at all the Black women supporting R. Kelly, I have been verbally and darn near physically assaulted by SISTERS when I even suggest the guy needs to go to jail if found guilty).

Yet, I understand that Black women have been carrying the ball for a group of ingrates for the last 150 years or so, heck, sisters have been the protectors of Black men (which I will say is bass ackwards in my opinion) since the first slave boats arrived in the Americas, so I can understand Black women’s frustration with the main stream civil rights hustlers…I mean civil rights “leaders” as they often ignore Black women’s (and children’s) issues in favor of baby sitting many grown arse Black men who won’t (not can’t) man the hell up. However, it is my most sincere assertion, from my assessment of the actuality we currently inhabit, that Black men and women need to cooperatively work together for the betterment of the WHOLE community for the most effective change.

I’m just saying…

@Professor Tracey:

“The question is could black men stand black women leading the the fire this time and stnad behind us like we have historically did for them? If you believe the stats we have the money and the education on our side.”

I’ll stand behind or beside ANYBODY who is working for positive change for Black women, Black Children and / or Black men. Some brothers ego’s can’t handle that, well, I am a Marine, and we learn the best leaders MUST be as good at FOLLOWING. My first teacher was a Black woman (my mother), and I know sisters can lead, if they do, I will support them as much as I would support any man.

I think a lot of brothers would agree, for those that don’t, to hell with em.

@Wisdom teaches me:

“dj black adam, what do you think needs to be done as a group where black women and men are working together?”

Well, maybe it’s the Wisdom of Zehuti (Toth) that done got me thinking about this, however, I will not cluter Professor Tracey’s space with my thesis in this, so, I will commit to have “what I think” in a posting on my Blog no later than tomorrow afternoon.

My world view is a bit unorthodox (I am a guy who plans to take over Liberia, so what do you expect), but overall it starts with education at HOME and a concerted effort of personal accountability and mutual respect.

JJ January 14, 2008 at 10:11 PM  

Gender turncoats...sigh.

In order for any feminism to be successful it has to accept the saints and the whores.

To do otherwise is to play into a patriarchal system that pits women against each other in some sort of good girl vs. bad girl dichotomy that serves no purpose but to divide women and empower men.

The assumption that "gender turncoats" have nothing valuable to say or add to the feminist agenda is an erroneous stance to sake and will do nothing but undercut a movement and prevent any real success.

You're either for women or you're not. You don't get to choose which ones work for you or are deserving of a voice.

Mickey January 14, 2008 at 10:16 PM  

First, let me say that reading this blog (and others like it) has been mindblowing. It's great to see women who look like ME finally addressing the issues I struggle with as a young-ish Black woman.

I will admit to being confused about being a feminist. I think a feminist should be an advocate for ALL women.
But what I read/hear/observe is that to be a good feminist you must hate men. That a woman is always right until proven otherwise. That woman can be just like men.

So what I would love to hear from you on is: Can I be a feminist and a good wife (someday)? Can I be a feminist and choose to raise my own children (someday)? Can I chose to be discriminating about sex and still be a feminist?

I just would like to hear feedback from a Black woman's perspective.

DJ Black Adam January 15, 2008 at 12:40 AM  

@JJ
”DJ Black Adam -You're being disingenuous when you compare the needs to Black women to children and midgets.”

Actually, I am being very serious as a heart attack. Every group has their own set of issues; surely you don’t think Black women’s issues are more or less important than anybody else’s issues? Surely you don’t deny the very serious problems facing Black children?

My point is, if you, can only see Black women’s issues as worth addressing, you are as bad as any chauvinist that you complain about.

"Space" isn't about going somewhere for a quick timeout but about working ot issues that are important to a group that the dominant (in this case Black males) cannot or will not deal with.”

Who said “timeout”? Stop creating a strawman to argue with, I understand full well that each group in any social subset has unique issues that may or may not be addressed by the collective, my point to you is that COLLECTIVE issues must be dealt with at the LEAST congruently with ANY issues ANY subset of the collective has for there to be any TRUE EFFECTIVE change.

”There is a lot of sexism in the Black community need to be able to work that out sans the inflence of men”

That statement is illogical; sexism cannot be worked out without Black men working on that problem as well.

”We can work together...sure. But there are things we need to work on ourselves without the benefit of male involvement or opinion.”

Well, I am wise enough to admit that the problems that Black Men and Black children face cannot ever be truly worked out without addressing the problems of Black women, if you don’t see it that way; we will just have to agree to divide on that issue a perception of the greater actuality.

wisdomteachesme January 15, 2008 at 1:55 AM  

mickey, i feel a woman can.
yes.

SheCodes January 15, 2008 at 4:58 PM  

@JJ, I don't think that you read Professor Tracey's post on gender turncoats. If you have, then we definitely disagree.

@DJ Black Adam: TAKE OVER LIBERIA??? ROFL... and thanks for the reminder of Shazam... I loved Shazam and Isis. Back to the point though... you said:

"Shecodes, truly, what real Black man would NOT be concerned about Black women’s issues?"

Maybe the operative word was 'real', but I know plenty of black men who have no patience for ANY discussion of the oppression of black women. And many of these guys consider themselves 'good black men'.

Professor Tracey January 15, 2008 at 10:19 PM  

@JJ -

I will accept, support, and love the women that struggle to do right in the black community, but they must change or I will get after them!

DJ Black Adam January 16, 2008 at 2:36 PM  

Hey, it took me an extra day, but here is a brief look at my thoughts (as requested by Wisdomteachesme" for SOLUTIONS.

http://djblackadam.typepad.com/damnitq/2008/01/addressing-th-1.html

Peace.

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