Tuesday, December 23, 2008

Pastor Rick Warren Removes Anti-Gay Statements From Saddleback Church Website

Was this legal in the first damn place? I was pretty shocked to discover this kind of information listed on a church website. I was aware this type of discrimination existed, but I can't believe that someone would put it on a website. Why would you want to attend a church that told you that you were not acceptable as yourself? Whether you believe in or support homosexuality or not, this kind of exclusion is dangerous. And is it really Rick Warren's place to judge people?

Folks really need to think about these kind of positions. So, if you're gay, you can't be a member, but if you beat your wife and children, have been married multiple times to someone of the opposite sex, are a racist, or a serial killer, you can be a member of Saddleback Church as long as you are not gay. And what if Pastor Warren decides that being a free African American is a "lifestyle" or being an independent woman is a "lifestyle"? Folks keep forgetting how the bible was used to enslave blacks and subjugate women.

And what kills me is that there are plenty of black and white churches just like Saddleback Church that have all these negative views of homosexuality, but have a significant gay membership. Does Pastor Warren actually believe that his church does not have gay members? And just because an gay individual decides to deny their sexual orientation and not engage in sexual activity, does not make them suddenly straight. Even if they marry or have children to fit in, they are still gay. Just look at former Pastor Ted Haggard. Isn't interesting how the Christian right NEVER talks about this dude anymore?

I think it's time folks start minding their own business.


Anonymous,  December 23, 2008 at 1:57 PM  

Prof Tracey,

It is legal for a church to discriminate against any particular group of people for membership ect. The Catholics have been doing it for years - so has other mainstream Christian religions.

I go agree 100% that to magnify "the sin" (this definition is debatable at best - but speaking on terms of their own language) above that of wife beating, racist etc. is hypocritical. It shows the political polarization of the subject matter to point to the gay community and specifiy such membership qualifications.

Don't even start me on Haggard. Its a cover up to say the least.

I have articles from when he first came out and spoke to his congregation after the fallout - and he talked about how he struggled with his sexuality all of his life. That was in October of 06... then in Feb of 07 they, (his leaders) were saying he was "delivered" and that this was a short term issue for him. I tend to believe Haggard who was for once honest about it - not these pharisees who cover up the issue for their own political convienience.

cinco December 23, 2008 at 2:06 PM  

There's not enough time for me to respond about some people professing to be 'Christian/Christ-like.

You've hit on several key points though, it doesn't matter if the church acknowledges their gay parishners or not, they exist.

Too many pastors are judges and speak as if they have their own Eternal places of Heaven or Hell. (If you believe in such.)

There's an enormous amount of toleration within the Apostolic church for some of the senarios you mentioned above...infidelity; spousal and/or child abuse; ignorance; sexism and discrimination. I could never understand how some people who profess to exhibit christ like attributes could behave in ways worse than many non believers.

I'm not saying that there's no one living right, if that's what you want to do, but there seems to be more people living the opposite.

I'm accepting of people doing what they desire to do to themselves and with others as long as they are consenting adults. As an adult they can accept the circumstances that result.

roslynholcomb December 23, 2008 at 4:01 PM  

I'm assuming, perhaps erroneously, since that was under Small Group Information, that perhaps gays in the church had tried to form a small group and they put this up to dissuade them. I'm hoping they didn't just pull this out of nowhere. Of course, Warren is such a tool anything is possible.

ActsofFaithBlog December 26, 2008 at 3:16 AM  

Rick Warren has been jockeying for position for years so now that's he's about to ascend with Obama's help he's trying to fake the funk. I know some people really want to believe in condemnation and homosexuality as the great sin but it just never really bothered me. Not that any of the churches I went to when I was a child or young adult supported gays. I just couldn't get into the hate when I saw so many other people doing all sorts of despicable things and used religion to hurt others. It's hard for me to go now because I feel like I;m surrounded by a bunch of fake damaged people pretending at something - even though the last church I went to was gay affirming. I have a problem with "religion" because of the hypocrisy.

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